Some Christians Won’t Inherit the Kingdom? | 1 Corinthians 6:9 Explained
1 Corinthians 6:9 tells us
‘Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God?
Guess when this verse is most commonly used? It’s used in discussions about people who are gay or people who have gotten divorced and remarried.
They use this verse to suggest that if a Christian is engaged in a homosexual lifestyle or is in some way guilty of adultery, that God will change his mind and revoke their salvation, and they will not inherit the kingdom.
Let’s take a look at Paul’s letter and see if that’s actually what he’s teaching. I’m confident you’re going to find that Paul is actually teaching the exact opposite.
For starters, it always concerns me when people hyperfocus on just two sins that Paul wrote about.
Let’s start by talking about ALL the sins in that list of people who won’t inherit the kingdom:
[1 Corinthians 6:9-10] Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
But wait, this list that Paul gives is actually even longer.
In his letter to the Galatians, we see even more sins that result in people ‘not inheriting the kingdom’.
[Galatians 5:19-21] The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord (disagreeing), jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions (dissenting groups, i.e in politics) and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
So, we’ve got a big problem on our hands if all of these people will not inherit the kingdom? And certainly, the list is much longer than that. If this is true, 90% of Christians are doomed. Most, if not all of us, are guilty of at least one of these.
Now let’s put some context in this.
What do we call the things on this laundry list? We call them sins.
What did Jesus do about those sins? He died for them. Nowhere in scripture do we see that Jesus only died for little sins for the ones that we rarely commit. Nowhere in scripture do we see that the only sins that are forgiven are the ones that you fully repent of. We do not receive forgiveness of sins because we’re so awesome in our overall performance. We receive forgiveness through faith, by grace, it is not of ourselves. It is a gift from God.
God tells us our sins have been washed away as far as the west is from the east – Hebrews 10:2
God tells us he remembers our sins no more – Hebrews 10:17
God tells us he will present us as blameless – Colossians 1:22
God also tells us he will never leave us or forsake us – Hebrews 13:5. He promises that when we are faithless he is going to remain faithful – 2 Timothy 2:13.
So why then is Paul giving out this enormous list of sins that result in not inheriting the kingdom? Is he really threatening Christians? Is he really saying that God will revoke His promise?
Here is what’s actually going on.
Paul was writing the Corinthians who were engaged in all kinds of sin. They knew the blood of Jesus worked and they had Grace poured all over them. They knew they were indeed free to do whatever without punishment. The problem was they were using their grace to indulge the flesh. Many Christians stupidly do that. That’s why this long list that Paul gave you should shut every one of us up.
So, what’s happening is Paul has a heart for these Corinthians. He doesn’t want them to forget that the very things they’re doing now were once eternally punishable. Meaning before they called on Jesus those very things prevented them from inheriting the kingdom. The wages of sin is death. Any sins. Any size. Why do the very things that once resulted in eternal punishment? We’re not made for sin. We are never satisfied with sin. We have new desires. And if we follow Paul’s letter in context, we discover Paul is not threatening the Corinthians.
He’s talking about what happens to people who are NOT believers. In other words, he’s describing their previous condition and the result of their sins. And if we would just read one more verse, we’d see Paul literally concludes by basically telling them ‘hey Corinthians, sin was what your old identity was, but that’s not who you are now, you are safe and you have been cleansed, so live it out. Don’t use your freedom to do the things that once led to eternal punishment”.
Here’s the verse:
[1 Cor6:11] And that is what some of you WERE. But you were WASHED, you were SANCTIFIED, you were JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
So, they WERE, in the past, the sum total of their sins. But now they have been saved. And if we’re going to live out our present identity, we’re going to realize that we truly are only satisfied when we walk in the spirit.
In fact, check out the very next verse:
[1 Cor 6:12] “I have the right to do ANYTHING,” you say—but not everything is beneficial.
Paul says this again in chapter 10.
[1 Cor 10:23] “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but not everything is constructive.
This is the Corinthian attitude. They are right. They are free. They are forgiven. And they can indeed do ANYTHING on the list, BUT, Paul’s reminding them not everything is beneficial. There are earthly consequences. And many of these sins affect our own body. So, let’s not let those things master us.
If someone commits adultery, they are forgiven, but earthly consequences can include sexually transmitted diseases, hurting other people, destroying the lives of children.
If someone is a drunkard they are forgiven by God, but earthly consequences can include going to jail for drunk driving, heart disease, broken relationships, loss of jobs.
The point is sin always leads to negative earthly consequences.
That is our context. Paul is not threatening the Corinthians with eternal punishment or losing salvation. Just consider that he has a heart for his brothers and sisters in Christ and he doesn’t want them indulging in sins, but rather being a reflection of Christ as they live out their true identities.
If you have called on Jesus, he is your father and you are his child, and there’s no sin you could ever commit that would have God leave you or forsake you. God is not a liar. But I must say that many people innocently misunderstand the context of scripture.
So yes, there are indeed people that will not inherit the kingdom of God. They are called unbelievers, and I promise you that list of sins that Paul gave us was only a tiny fraction of the sins that lead to destruction. But if you have ever called on Jesus to rescue you from that list, there no longer remains a list for you. You have been washed. You have been cleansed. You have been justified. Not because your performance got better, but rather because the blood of Jesus is far greater than any sin you had or will ever commit.
Thank you Jesus!
Author: Mike Cynar
Mike Cynar was raised in a church setting where he frequently noticed that many attendees would eventually drift away. The church labeled these individuals as ‘back sliders’ or ‘fake Christians’ just looking for ‘fire insurance’. However, Mike realized the issue was rarely with these individuals but instead with the church’s message itself. The teachings heavily emphasized behavior improvement and one’s flaws, with only a fleeting mention of one’s identity in Christ. It felt as though every sermon was tailored to the church of Corinth, who as we know or committing sins that even unbelievers don’t partake in. This trend was noticeable not just in one denomination, but across Baptist, Catholic, Pentecostal, and many other churches. Upon understanding the true essence of the gospel – that our righteousness comes from Jesus’ actions, not our own – Mike was inspired to liberate believers from lifeless sermons and reconnect them with the genuine teachings of Jesus. He believes that one can nurture a vibrant and growing bond with Jesus, unhindered by rigid religious practices. And thus, “Jesus Without Religion” was born.
It turns out that it is grace that leads to repentance. And if our heart is to get others to walk in the Spirit and live a godly life, then the best approach is not a beat down sermon, but rather to remind other that it is only when we understand our true identity in Christ that we will live it out. Yes, it’s true, if you’re convinced that God thinks you’re a dirty sinner, you will ultimately continue a lifestyle that mirrors that view, but if you truly believe that even on your worst day, you are called holy, sanctified, justified, and will be presented blameless in the end, well, it turns out this is the secret to living out on the outside what has been worked in to the inside.
49 Comments
”Nowhere in scripture do we see that the only sins that are forgiven are the ones that you fully repent of”
Actually, that’s precisely what we see in scripture. Salvation is always conditional upon repentance. Every single time that Christ discusses salvation he calls upon his audience to REPENT and be saved. In the specific we can look to the following passages, addressed to the Christian churches, not to unbelievers, which unambiguously tell us that we must completely turn from sin and repent in order to be saved:
Hebrews 6:4-6 – ”It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.”
Hebrews 10:26-31 – ”If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
Ephesians 5:3-7 – ”But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.”
What you are teaching here is a false gospel.
Not a false gospel but an error. Corinthians is about the Judgment Seat of Christ wherein BELIEVERS have salvation and can enter the kingdom but not INHERIT the kingdom. those who inherit are constantly obedient. Others will enter only but not get crowns and rewards. As to your Repentance comment. Johns gospel which tell unbelievers how to get everlasting life is the only book in the NT written to UNBELIEVERS and doesnt mention repentance or obediance or submission ONCE, NOT once. It say Believe in me 98 times.
Thanks for your comment.
Corinthians is about much more than the Judgment seat of Christ.
As for this theology that a believer can enter the kingdom but not inherit the kingdom, well, I don’t believe you’re teaching will find any scriptural basis for such a comment.
In Matthew 25 I see a picture of judgment Day. There are only two groups. One group is sent to hell, and the other group is told they will inherit the kingdom prepared for them. You will not find a third group but failed to inherit the kingdom and fell short and only get to enter the kingdom.
You will not find any scripture where believers are saved, earn rewards, or inherit the kingdom by being outwardly obedient. That is extremely bad teaching and leaves very little room to trust in Jesus.
And all this teaching about rewards may sound religious and ominous, but there’s a certain word you’re not going to find in the Scriptures. That word is rewards. With an S. Plural. You will find the word reward, singular, and his name is Jesus. And the scriptures tell us that the reward is the inheritance of the kingdom, not a bunch of jewelry and crowns. The crowns are representative of Jesus, not gold and diamonds, etc. i.e. the crown of righteousness. Jesus is your righteousness. The crown of life. Jesus is your life. I’m not sure why people miss this and try to turn it into some heavenly gift shop.
John’s book is the only book written to unbelievers? You have to be kidding me? You don’t think any other authors had a heart to share the gospel with unbelievers and only wanted to ride to believers? If that’s the case, then explain to me why any other letter would tell the audience to believe? What’s the point of telling a believer they need to believe? Have you not read the letter to the Hebrews? I challenge you to read the first 10 chapters and find a single reference of outward sin. But I can promise you you’re going to find dozens and dozens of references to the sin of unbelief. Inward
My friend, it seem that you put a huge amount of your trust in your outward performance and human effort. You also put a huge emphasis on being paid back for how awesome you are. But what I don’t see coming from your comment is the acknowledgment of what Jesus has done for YOU.
My reward is Christ. And I didn’t do a single thing outwardly to get that reward. My inheritance will be the kingdom. And I will not pound my chest and stand before God on judgment day bragging about what I did for him. Rather I will be bragging about what he did for me.
This is not semantics. I think you mean well, but you honestly have a very dangerous doctrine that you were pushing here.
[Col 1:12] and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light.
You notice it wasn’t the individual that qualify themselves for human performance. It was the father to qualify them. Any other teaching is denying what Jesus did for them.
I agree with you. I have an ex that claims to be a Christian and he has nothing to do with his children whatsoever. I divorced him because of his cheating and alcohol and drug abuse and abuse period. Plus he called cps so many times on me they knew he was abusing me and they told me to stay away from him or there would be problems. Yet, the Bible says parents like him are lower then an infidel etc. Many others would say that he’s a sinner who is covered like anyone else. These passages are not just for unsaved people. They’re specifically for those who think they are saved. It’s one thing to slip and fall. But when there is a pattern of defiance like my ex well.. they will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven because they’re not truly saved. They have denied the faith and the truth is not in them.
I am really sorry to hear about your marriage. Heartbreaking. When it comes to salvation, the only ‘pattern’ that determines our inheritance is rather we are in Adam (dead) or alive in Christ. Being a jerk doesn’t undo salvation (assuming they are really saved). Likewise, being super nice and good doesn’t save the unbeliever.
My situation is similar and it’s how I landed on this page. I have always believed once we’re saved we are secure. But I’ve been asking God a lot of questions about this and just reading the Bible for what it plainly says. I noticed all these lists start with “do not be deceived”, which indicates that we can be deceived into believing that people who do these things do inherit the kingdom. But I think maybe these lists are not what people think. There is a type of person that does all of these things at a very intense level, like your husband and mine. Not everyone has encountered a person like that, but when you live with one, all of these passages make total sense. These people are the abusers, the narcissists, the ones who will destroy a person without a single feeling (even their own children), who engage in one immoral cheating relationship after another, who are pathological liars as a way of life, who will steal from anyone, who abuse substances and who refuse to listen to the truth of the gospel. They fully know what God says and they do not care. I think that is who these lists are referring to. The other group of people I think it refers to are those who are false believers. These are the ones the pharisees typified. They use Christianity or the Bible to abuse others. They are full of hatred and jealousy, they refuse to acknowledge sin, they cover up sexual sin and child abuse. Jesus called them vipers and sons of hell and said they would die in their sins because they refuse to believe in him. Like I said I came to this through trying to understand the horrible abuse I suffered as a child in the name of Christianity, and then the abuse I suffered from a husband who can only be described as evil. It is heart breaking because these are people I love dearly. Yet in my heart I know these lists are true and God cannot allow these people into his kingdom. I pray for them constantly, that their hearts would turn to repentance. But until then, these are dangerous and deadly people. Paul said to have nothing to do with people who claim to be believers and practice these things while refusing to repent. I also believe these lists apply to false teachers. These lists describe wanton, persistent evil, not daily sins we all struggle with.
MIKE, YOU ARE ABSOLUTLEY CORRECT!!! JAMES IS EITHER A COWARD OR HAD NOT READ THE BIBLE!! MOST PRECHERS (TBN) ARE NOTHING BUT FEEL GOOD!!
AMEN. THAT HIT ME HARD TOO, WITH HIM SAYING THEY ARE FORGIVEN WITHOUT REPENTING. PERHAPS, HE HIMSELF IS IN SOME IMMORAL OR HOMOSEXUAL ACTIONS. HE IS LITERALLY CONDONING THEM SAYING ITS OKAY!!!!! THAT IS THE DEVIL. THE DEVIL IS A LIAR AND THR father OF LIES.
LORD JESUS, BRING THIS MAN TO REPENTANCE FOR FALSE TEACHING, WHICH YOU SAY TEACHERS WILL BE JUDGED EVEN STRICTER. THE DEVIL HAS BLINDED HIS HEART & MIND, OR HE COULD BE KNOWINGLY LEADING PEOPLE TO LITERAL HELL..🙏✝️🕊️
Dear God have mercy. It is one thing to twist the scriptures to your own destruction. It is a whole other level of wicked to teach them in a twisted way and lead others to destruction. Certainly, stumbling blocks must come but woe to those who they come through. It would be better to tie a stone around your neck and throw yourself into the sea than to deceive people by telling them they can continue in sin and inherit God’s kingdom. Thankfully, the scriptures are abundantly clear and anyone with a sincere heart can read them and see that you are not telling the Truth. That is why 1st John says, when dealing with this very issue, do not let anybody deceive you. False prophets have always been the same. They twist the truth to comfort people in their iniquity rather than warning them to flee from it by laying hold of the Eternal Life the Father sent down from Heaven. Whoever continues in purposeful sin does not know Him and has never seen Him.
As a minister, I allowed similar lies to slip into my thought processes. As a result, I purposely compromised and sinned in different ways thinking I am forgiven. After 20 years of preaching, the Lord showed me I did not truly hate my life and had not truly turned away from it. I was in shock. I began to find out what it means to fear the Lord. I began to believe what the Life said about the coming judgment. The amazing thing is it set me free from things I never thought I could be free from. Lust makes my stomach sick now and I no longer fall every now and then thinking I’ll be safe. I thank God every moment of every day that He allowed great tribulation and fire to come into my life to show me I was being deceived. It’s amazing how I wiggled my way out of so many plain scriptures. Now I believe every single one of them and exactly what they say. If you continue in His true Word you will know the truth and it will make you free. If you really believed that God will judge all men impartially then you would live your few days in this world in the fear of the Lord and perfect holiness by walking after for the Spirit of Life that is in Christ Jesus. Jesus did not come down out of heaven to embrace you in your sin. He came to deliver us from it. Any person who continues to purposely sin there is no sacrifice that will be applied to them. It is not those who call Him Lord who will inherit the kingdom of God. Only those who do the will of the Father in heaven will inherit God’s kingdom. Workers of lawlessness will be turned away. The New covenant is not the destruction of the law. It is the law being written on our heart and our mind rather than tablets of stone. If we walk after the Spirit then we are not under the law. The Spirit doesn’t need the law because it doesn’t do anything to break it. You have been deeply deceived just as I was and the vast majority of people who think they are on the way to heaven have been. I weep for you and for all of us. The only hope many have is that through destruction they will come to a knowledge of the truth and genuinely repent, hate the life they inherited from the wrong tree, and fully turn away from it.
Being saved by grace means we are delivered by God working in us both to will and to do of His pleasure when we identify with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It doesn’t mean we are not actually delivered. It’s simply means we can’t deliver ourselves. He forgives us for our sin and cleanses us from all unrighteousness when we do. That means He delivers us from it which is why John says if we continue in it we don’t know him. He came to destroy sin not to excuse it or cover it.
I saw your response to another guy who tried to share the truth with you. He said he felt sorry for him and I know you think he is genuinely miserable. The truth is I’ve never been more at peace in all of my life. To genuinely put to death the mistids of the body by the Spirit is glorious and wonderful.
Unfortunately, I know your kind, and I certainly feel deeply saddened for anyone who would view as a teacher let alone a minister.
There’s so much wrong with what you just wrote and it’s abundantly clear that instead of viewing God has someone who loves us and gave it all, you view him as an angry tyrannical spiritual being just waiting to cut us off.
When we say: Grace
You hear: That’s a License to sin
When we say: Forgiveness
You hear: So lets all sin more
When we say: Eternal (unending) salvation
You hear: He’s saying Let’s lie, cheat, and steal
All the garbage you just spewed was completely out of line with anything we’ve ever written or said. At no point has this ministry condoned even a hint of sin. Your ego cannot accept love, forgiveness, and our sins being taken away. The very thought of such teaching is enough for you to come out with your swords blazing to make sure that no one be comfortable and rest in Christ. In your mind, we can’t handle that much grace, and you’re ready two dump religious water all over it in an effort to put it out.
You intent is to hold the forgiveness of God’s children hostage. You won’t let them trust the cross. You certainly will not let them soak in the grace of Jesus. Forgiveness is an offensive word to you and you simply are not willing to participate. That’s because at your very core you do not know Jesus and you do not trust him.
If you can find a single instance (just one) where we have encouraged outward sinful behavior, I will acknowledge it publicly. But you won’t. Until then you are like a Pharisee elevating yourself above the children of God, but all along you are a dirty rotten tomb inside.
The people that follow this ministry love Jesus and hate sin. And we are committed to showing them their security in Christ. He is their anchor – their performance is not. If you intend to come here with your lies and message of fear, condemnation, and pending punishment or removal of salvation, it’s not welcomed. Take that DNA somewhere else. We do not entertain cults here.
Amen… The lists Paul gives are for those who speak against Grace. In fact the list in Galatians is regarding those who live out of their own righteousness and reject the transformative power of Grace.
The “do not be deceived” comment is Paul simply saying don’t be tricked into thinking that unbelievers who act like this will inherit the kingdom but then the context says but that is who they used to be they’ve been redeemed so don’t act in it any longer. Context is key and these legalists never know how to read context.
It seems to me (and always has) that some who seek God through Jesus Christ truly believe that they never sin again in their lifetime, and that sin is then only defined by actions they avoid? They then identify those “sins” as a judgement upon others. It’s all very confusing for those of us living imperfect lives while still feeling the profound joy of knowing Jesus and trusting the Gospel is not a lie.
I can say with complete certainty that that is a small group of people and definitely the definition of a cult. I don’t give them any attention. They are liars and the truth is not in them.
Please explain I Corinthians 5.
Sure – Did you have a specific question?
In 1 Cor 5, first, we see there is a member of the church who is apparently sleeping with his father’s wife.
We know this person is a Christian because it’s described as doing something even unbelievers don’t do.
The apostle Paul is saying this person is misbehaving so terribly that he should be put out of the church. The persons not losing your salvation, but you don’t want people in the congregation who are just arrogant and cocky about their sins. This guy is described just as that kind of person. And the apostle Paul’s helping them understand that one person behaving like that literally leavens the whole dough.
So this isn’t like some guy who’s struggling with a couple of drinks, or privately struggling with pornography. This person is openly sinning and doesn’t care what it makes the church look like.
At the end of the chapter we do discover, contrary to popular opinion, we are indeed called to judge one another. Of course not judge their salvation, but rather judge their performance. Noting if there’s a big difference in judging somebody’s every move, and judging someone who is wildly out of control and arrogant about it.
Yes, I do have a question. What did the man (I Cor. 5) need to do to be restored to the ecclesia & to God?
This man did not need to be restored to God. His sins are forgiven. Remembered no more. He is justified. Sanctified. However, what he needed was to be restored to his congregation. So he needed to stop his wilfully and highly inappropriate boastful sin. But no where do we find that his frustration with God was ever in jeopardy.
He did need to ask God to forgive him for his sinful lifestyle and admit that he was wrong though correct? Because we do go on sinning. And we still need to recognize that we need to “repent” which means “change directions.” We still need to talk to God and admit to Him that he is right and realize that we need His guidance more and more correct?
My friend, you will never find these words addressing Christians in the Bible:
“ask for forgiveness”
This is a man-made theology. It implies that our forgiveness is held hostage until you beg and plead for forgiveness, sin by sin. Yet, that teaching exists nowhere in the new testament.
Anyone who is a Christian, has unlimited and unconditional forgiveness. Meaning you cannot out sin the blood Jesus poured out on the cross for us. Any teaching like that suggests that our sin (the problem) is bigger than Jesus’ blood (the solution).
Now let’s talk about repenting. Your repenting from outward sin does not activate the blood for your forgiveness. Even if you never stop committing a specific sin, the blood of Jesus is holy and perfect enough to be the perfect propitiation for it.
Let me pause for a moment. To be clear, when people hear that Jesus died for our sins, and his blood is sufficient, they immediately think we are teaching that sin does not matter.. And I want to be clear, sin does matter. It’s disgusting. We should avoid it. There’s no place for it in the Christian life. But I will not water down what Jesus did for us on the cross. It is a slap in his face to say that we can somehow lose our salvation, or have Jesus revoke his forgiveness. If we don’t say special words, or if we repeat the same sin. The teaching simply is not found in the Scriptures.
In the New Testament, when you read the word repent, it is referring to an INWARD repentance and it is always addressing Jewish people. The Jewish people were rejecting Jesus. Blasphemy. They needed to repent. He wasn’t talking about their outward performance. They need to repent of their unbelief..
Again, should we repent from outward sin? Of course. But if we are going to sell the idea that it saves us then we are preaching a works based gospel.
Anyone who is a Christian already agrees with God that sin is bad and worthy of death. The word ‘confess’ simply means ‘agree with God’. This is not some type of bar soap that we have to pull out sin by sin to reactivate forgiveness.
I’m not sure how people miss the letter to the Corinthians. These guys are literally rolling in sin. They certainly were not repenting for the longest time. Get the apostle Paul calls them Saints. He tells them they will be presented as blameless on judgment day. Yes, he absolutely chastise them for their stupid decisions. But you will not find a single instance where he threatens their salvation or forgiveness..
Again, let’s avoid sin. But when you come across Christians, who are stumbling and making stupid decisions, it’s certainly fine to encourage them to walk in the spirit and get away from their sin, but I believe you are making a huge mistake when you start telling them that God is for saving them. That God is leaving now. That God will not forgive them. God said he will never leave us or forsake us. He seven we are faithless. He will remain faithful. Let’s not take the grace of God and bury it under a legalist message.. We need every believer to know that, regardless of their stupid decisions, Jesus is faithful, and we will, indeed be presented as blameless on judgment day. The more we believe that, the less likely we are to make those stupid decisions..
Thanks Mike for the answer. But curiously looking at the question posed and what should the individual do to be restored back to the congregation, I believe here is the “traffic jam” for a lot of well meaning church-goers. If 2 Cor. 2: 7-10 comes into play here as the follow-up reference or example to consider in approaching the question, then the Church (body of believers) plays a vital role in the restoring even if the man has ceased. Oftentimes we as believers are quick to make a performance assessment of a believers act but blind to see what the performance measure of the church is. So the restoration is never applied but implied only. Paul infers that if the offender is left to ponder if indeed they are forgiven by God and man then the restoration is not fully executed on a relational level. God’s forgiveness is not the problem but rather knowing that believers must be willing to act likewise. So in short language the restoration back into the ecclesiastical group is more than waiting for the offender to stop doing something, but also assuming the church is prepared to ” reaffirm” and not reinjur the believer by withholding love. Paul states it clearly that the aim is not sit around and wait until the offender is consumed by “excessive sorrow”. Excessive Sorrow is a believer overly suffering from the guilt and shame to the point that the idea of restoration isn’t feasible. Notice though that Paul doesn’t direct the conversation toward what he expects the disciplined offender should do. Paul does not tell them to wait and wait, and wait and wait. Enough. RESTORE
Thanks for the comment!
Re: what should the individual do to be restored back to the congregation
To me, it is simple. They need to turn (repent) from the sin. Nothing else needs to be done. If I have repented, I have recognized that my behavior was ungodly, and I have began walking in the spirit again. I don’t need a human being to come and finish the job.
Aside from confronting the sin, and hopefully, reminding that individual who they are in Christ before sending them on their way, I do not believe the church plays a role. If they have repented, our role is to simply love them.
Re: 2 Cor 7:10, which reads “For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death”.
This verse is actually contrasting a believer and unbeliever. A believer, even if he’s making stupid choices, like this individual we read about in Corinthians, already has a sorrow, and they have already been saved, and no further action is required for that salvation. It is the unbeliever that has a sorrow of the world.
Respectfully, in my view, I do not believe there is any scriptural evidence of this idea that I think is often referred to his positional/relational forgiveness. That suggests you might be forgiven for heaven, but positionally, your fellowship remains broken with God. God says he will never leave us or forsake us. He says, when we are faithless, he will remain faithful. So if we’re going to send, we’re going to have to do it with Jesus living in us because he’s not going anywhere. And even in the middle of our stupid choices, Jesus will be building us up, training us, guiding us, and teaching us to say NO so whatever that bad choices we are making.
For some reason, God brought this back to my mind. I wanted to add to my comment.
It begins by discussing a CHRISTIAN man who’s committing a sin that is so vile that even nonbelievers don’t typically engage in it.
This guy apparently sleeping with his mother, perhaps his mother-in-law, or someone with his father newly married to.
He’s basically making a mockery of the church. Ultimately is decided to remove this person from the church. Let his sin destroy his flesh. But let’s point out that it is not going to destroy his new spirit. The scripture literally says that his spirit will be safe on the day of the Lord.
I also want to point out that this man being removed from the church if not, some guy who perhaps is struggling with the little alcohol, maybe told a lie or cheated on his taxes, etc. We are clearly told that this is a sin that’s so disgusting that even unbelievers do not engage in it. And if we read the text carefully, we also discover that this person is very arrogant about his sin. He’s boasting about it (vs 6) which is a very bad image for the church. We all stumble in many ways. We’re allowed to be weak. Let’s not flagrantly throw it out there and then brag about it as if it’s no big deal and as of Jesus doesn’t care.
So it’s very important that we watch out for preachers who try to build a sermon out of this it’s just being so normal Christian, who’s having some difficulty struggles, and then turn it into a sermon about throwing everyone who struggles with sin out of the church. That would be a blatant abuse of the scriptures and people like that have no business teaching.
So just because somebody is struggling or making bad choices in no way implies that the word of God is calling them all to be tossed out of the church. Here are a few examples of the same sin, with different extremes.
1-There are some people who are greedy, and perhaps envious of what others have. There are others who are so greedy that they would steal and deceive and swindle others for profit and gain. Both are greedy, but their response to their fleshly desires are very different.
2-There are many people who struggle with addiction to alcohol. Perhaps they drink a few drinks every night. There are others who drink wildly and access to the point of becoming physically and verbally abusive. They get drunk, they fight and harm, innocent people, they yell vile comments to their spouse or children, etc.. Both drunkards. One is likely ashamed, and the other has no shame.
3-sexually immoral. They are people who struggle with pornography. They constantly find themselves looking and feeling lust. Though they do not act on it. Then there are others whose sexual immorality might include rape, pedophilia, open and boastful homosexuality, and yes, sleeping with their mom. Again both are sexually immoral, but one would not need to be thrown out of the church while the other would.
The conclusion is that, contrary to popular opinion, we are called to judge other believers. The problem is some people judge too harshly and exude absolutely no grace and no forgiveness. There is no gray area for some of these people. They judge, harshly, as if Jesus does not lavish us with grace and forgiveness, and kindness.
The moral is our behavior does matter. And if we find someone who is boastfully committing sins so awful that even the unbelievers don’t commit them, we need to remove a person from the church. But we also need to use wisdom. Let’s not treat the guy who was ashamed, because he finds himself frequently looking with lust, as being the same as the rapist.
Indeed, the wage of sin is death. There is no gray area there. But as believers, God says, we stand in Grace. He says all things are permissible. He says we are free in Christ. While that does not exempt us from making good choices and examining our brothers and sisters behavior, it does mean that there is gray area for those who are in Christ.
It is very interesting to read the comments back and forth and how you had to make a stand. I think it is inspiring to read your initial post and to watch you “defend the good news!”
What brought me to this website was a google search about inheriting the Kingdom of God.
I have been a Christian since I was 8 years old. I have tried to obey and I have also purposefully disobeyed God’s divine design for me. My experiences have taught me that deliberately going against God’s design for me, makes me feel shame, guilt, and condemnation.
I feel as if I have separated myself from God. Even though, I know that it just makes me “think” that I have. When in all reality, God never leaves me. God is always with me, pouring his goodness into me. I just do not listen and usually when I don’t, I destroy myself and others around me.
This morning I felt led to get up earlier than normal. I felt Jesus say, “come with me and I will show you something.”
I felt led to go to John, Chapter 17. 17:3 And this is the way to have eternal life-to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth.
John 17:10 All who are mine (I do belong to Jesus so therefore I am one of his), belong to you, (Therefore I belong to God too) and you have given them to me, so they bring me glory. (Therefore, I bring Jesus glory).
For sure! I can feel that in my bones. I know I bring Jesus glory. Mainly because I believe in Him for my salvation. I believe in Him for my worth. I believe in Him for everything. I put all my eggs into his basket.
John 17:16 They do not belong to this world any more than I do.
I do not belong to this world. I am set apart. I live in this world, but I do not belong to it. Again, I have been set apart by God to be holy and blameless as I stand before him without a single fault. Jesus sets me apart. I belong to Him. I belong to God. I do not belong to this world.
John 17:17 Make them holy by your truth; teach them your word, which is truth.
I can be made holy by God’s truth. Jesus is God’s truth. He is the way, the truth, the life. Jesus said it himself. He is the truth.
I can be made holy by God’s truth. God’s son. God’s one and only son! Praise God!
John 17:17b Teach them your word, which is truth. (The word was with God.)
Jesus is the word, Jesus is the truth. Everything points back to Jesus.
I have been sent into the world and I am holy because of Christ.
17:20 I am praying not only for these disciples but also for all who will EVER believe you sent me.
Jesus, himself, prayed for me. He prayed for me to be made holy by his sacrifice. He prayed for me to have joy. He prayed for me to know him and be made holy by him.
God answers prayers, especially those made by his one and only Son!
John 17:21 I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one…
The biggest issue is that we do not have unity amongst us. Too many different opinions about how to do and what to do.
Which leads me to your post. How do we find unity amongst us? I am totally about Jesus, His Grace, His justification for my sin. But I am also totally against some things. It is so hard to be against sin but for others. I find myself being stuck in what to say. I want to defend the good news. But I also want to tell people that they are living in sin and that it will not breed the results they are looking for.
I feel like we do not have unity amongst us because we cannot seem to determine from one Christian to another whether Jesus is enough. I believe he is!
Your argument makes no sense. You’re saying that the “sin lists” that Paul gives are only for “unbelievers”. But simply not believing is enough to send you to hell (see John 3:16 and many others). It’s not as if Paul is unaware of that truth. So then specific sins are of no relevance to unbelievers, they are already condemned (John 3:18). Therefore the list is CLEARLY for believers. Your argument is that only unbelievers are not allowed to sin, but believers are. It is 100% backwards, and that’s why you (and so many others) are teaching a false gospel. You have lost sight of the forest for the trees so that you can force your false belief into the Bible. Paul’s warning “DO NOT BE DECEIVED”. He was warning us about you.
You would do well if you quoted people and their context accurately.
The last teacher anyone should listen to is someone who says the bibles warning about false teachers is about people like me, who BOLDLY claim:
• Jesus is God
• The law is perfect and Holy
• Sin is bad, and we are called to avoid it
• Christians are made for good works and we should exude the love of Jesus
Your problem with my teaching is clear:
• You do not really believe that Jesus died for our sins
• You do not really believe the Jesus is the end of the law for all who believe
You APPEAR to Believe:
• The blood of Christ is sufficient for sins….unless you do it too much
• We are not saved by faith, apart from works. We need to add to that our ability to fully stop sinning. So, call it like it is…..works.
Those verses are about people addressing a false way of salvation as being apart from Jesus, or, as you appear to teach, Jesus + Works.
You have wildly misquoted us by saying “You’re saying that the “sin lists” that Paul gives are only for “unbelievers”.
We have always made clear that we are ALL called to avoid outward sin. Where you and I disagree is “it is avoiding sin that saves us” and you clearly are suggesting that it does.
All sin is bad, but only one leads to hell. The sin of unbelief.
Also, what is that talk about anyone “not being allowed to sin”. Both believers and unbeliever are ‘allowed to sin’. We all have free will to do good or bad.
The question is can a born-again Christian, who stubbornly doesn’t turn from his/her outward sin lose salvation?
And the answer is no. How do I know:
• The blood of Jesus (solution) is much bigger than our sin (problem)
• God will NEVER leave us or forsake us
• When We are faithless, He REMAINS faithful
• We have ETERNAL (without an end) salvation
• We are saved APART from works, NOT of ourselves, it is a GIFT, less anyone (like you) boast)
Piece of advice. Instead of being a religious bully and hurling insults to people who clearly love Jesus, why don’t you give a little effort to showing Jesus and have a conversation. Lets show the world Jesus, even when we don’t agree on everything.
If you treat someone like me so horrible, how would you treat an actual atheist? Would you be kind and seek to lead them to Jesus, of would you attack them?
Amen. Glad to hear someone who speaks truth
True faith includes works. Read James chapter 2 again. But then again I’m sure you have many weasel words to turn that one upside-down as well. And nowhere does the Bible say that we are “saved by faith apart from works”. It does say we are “justified” (not the same as saved, if you read Romans 5:9) “by faith apart from works OF THE LAW”. If you read the Bible a bit more carefully you will find there are different kinds of works. Paul exhorts everyone to GOOD works repeatedly.
All of you false teachers make the exact same exegetical mistakes because you have been deceived. And you have 100% lied about what I believe. Jesus said that the way to life is hard and those who find it are few. You teach people that’s it’s easy. Who should people believe, you or Jesus? Your site name should be “Religion without Jesus”.
“Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light”. I can see through your disguise. And this is how I treat everyone: to show them the truth, and to expose lies.
My Friend, part of what helped me to grow and understand God’s word was I was willing to be wrong. It’s really hard to do when we are convinced what we already know it’s truth. Are used to believe very similar to you. Although, unlike you, I was not condescending and basically telling everyone they were atheist just because we could not agree. Unless you’re willing to have a sensible conversation, we’re getting nowhere. My worry is that you’re so focused on if I’m right, or you’re right, that you’re not really willing to consider that you might be wrong. I’m open to allowing you to convince me differently, but it’s really getting more and more difficult with your nasty comments.
Many people misunderstand the context of James 2.
But rather than be placed on defense mode, I’m not sure why you’re bringing up works. I’ve already acknowledged that works are part of the national Christian life, and I’ve done it multiple times. Unfortunately, you sound like an attorney, who is making false allegations in order to make his case. Let’s behave like Christians and stick to actual facts quote each other correctly.
You Wrote: “And nowhere does the Bible say that we are “saved by faith apart from works”.”
This concerns me about who might be leading you, but it explains why you seem to be misunderstanding so much of scripture, including things that I have shared here. But here it is:
[Eph 2:8-9]
For by grace you have been SAVED through FAITH; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; NOT a result of WORKS, so that no one may boast.
In the same sentence, we see how somebody is saved. Through faith. And then it finishes by telling us it is not a result of works. So again, while works are important, I’m not interested in debating over them because I never said they were bad. But I will say they do not save us.
And it’s deeply concerning that you don’t understand that when the Bible says a person is justified that it is literally talking about their forgiveness of sins and their salvation. I take it you’re buying into a theology that a person is fully justified, but can still go to hell? That is a deeply disturbing message if it’s coming from any church. That would literally be the definition of a cult.
And again, you’re going on and on about good works while at no point have I debated the importance of works. But I will say that Jesus told us there was only one (singular) work that pleases God. And that work was that you believe. Faith. Notice in this verse these religious egomaniacs are trying to trap Jesus by asking him what works, plural, were that please God.
[John 6:28] Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may do the works of God?”
Now, if there was ever a time to start giving people a laundry list of outward performance to please God, this would be it. But instead, Jesus gives them a very unexpected answer.
[John 6:29] Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the WORK of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
So the Pharisees were talking about works, plural, in Jesus, spoke of a work, singular. Apparently God’s heart above everything else is that you believe in his son Jesus.
So, while we apparently both agree that outward works are indeed an important part of the Christian life, where we disagree is that I believe the real world that pleases God is faith. You apparently think what pleases God and also saves us is our performance. And again, outward works are absolutely part of the natural Christian life, God is not impressed with anything we are doing. He’s God..
[Acts 17:25] God is NOT served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things;
I mean this respectfully, I think you are far more jacked up on human works than God is. So much so that you want you to beat me down over works when I have not said a single negative thing about them.
You Wrote: “Jesus said that the way to life is hard and those who find it are few”
My friend, I genuinely think you mean well, but again you’ve completely missed the context of that scripture.
Jesus starts out talking about a wide gate that leads to destruction.
Who was Jesus talking to? Was it a bunch of Gentiles at the local church who were lazy and not on fire for God? Nope. Jesus was talking to Jewish people. Jews, who were jacked up and obsessed with their outward performance and how they looked. They looked clean on the outside, but Jesus tells him they were dead on the inside.
When Jesus was talking about the wide road that leads to destruction, he’s referring to the road the Jewish people were looking for. The Jews were traveling a road of self-righteousness. They were trying to be found righteous through the law, but no one will be found righteous through the Law. They were seeking forgiveness of sins from the blood of bulls and goats. But that was only a picture of Jesus. Again, if you missed the point of who the audience was you missed the entire point.
THEN Jesus tells these people who are obsessed with their outward performance that there’s another road. It is a narrow Road that few find. It leads to life in Christ. Do you know why that was? Because the Jewish people were not willing to believe that Jesus was the Messiah. Instead, they chose the law of Moses, Temple, sacrifices, and religious ceremonies, as a means of being made, clean and right with God.. It was narrow because they (Jews) weren’t willing to agree that Jesus is the way and no one finds life except through Him.
So, to be clear, the Jews were taking the hard way. They were trying to earn salvation. The idea that they could be saved through faith was unacceptable to them. And it seems like it’s unacceptable to you also.
You asked: “Who should people believe, you or Jesus?”
I say they should believe Jesus. But that’s the wrong question to be asking here now isn’t it. The question we should be asking is who is interpreting the scriptures correctly, you, or me?
You think I’m the one who’s confused. When Paul says “and this not of works” in Eph. 2:8, he meant the PROCESS of salvation, not YOUR salvation. YOUR salvation is through FAITH, which INCLUDES works. I take my understanding of scripture from discernment, prayer, and the Holy Spirit. I do not bring man made dogmas and easy-believism. Those kinds of teachings will cost people their eternal souls. You are NOT saved yet, NOBODY is. Read the Bible. The word “saved” is used in the past, present and future tenses. NEVER in the perfect tense. Except for the 500 years of mistranslating Ephesians chapter 2, which uses the perfect tense of saved in English, but not in the original Greek, which uses saved as a participle, NOT the main verb, which gets completely dropped. And just look at how you have twisted and manipulated Matthew 7:13. And I suppose when Jesus said “if you love me, you will keep my commandments”, he was talking to those poor “unsaved Jews”. God doesn’t NEED us to do works, he COMMANDS it. It’s a COVENANT, and you still have to do YOUR part, he already did his. And you have fallen into the same trap that Satan has led the others like you into. The word “believe” in Greek is the same word for “faith”. You simplify it, by removing the key elements of true faith, which are obedience and good works.
I will not speak to you anymore, you are twisted and understand nothing. I will pray that you not lead too many to their destruction.
My friend, you’re welcome to try to redefine Ephesians 2, but that doesn’t make it true.
On one hand, you’re telling me you do not take opinions from men on scripture, yet here you are expecting me to digest your opinion. Respectfully, you’re so far out of your league in this discussion, and it’s honestly difficult dealing with your prideful ego. The reality is men should talk about scripture. Men should be willing to be wrong and open to learn
You used this term ‘easy-believism’. That may sound all religious and ominous, but it’s not a teaching you’re going to find in the scripture. And you honestly do sound like a Pharisee. Someone who is saying ‘how dare you suggest that Jesus is enough’. You expect me to believe that you’re a man of faith? My apologies for being so direct, but quite honestly, you’re rather combative person, arrogant, and rude.
So, you don’t believe we are saved yet? My friend you are seriously involved in some kind of a cult.. I don’t even see the point in sugarcoating this any further. That is such a jacked up opinion I’m not even going to make the time to defend it as it would derail most of this conversation.
The most recent verse you completely took out of context was “if you love me, you will keep my commandments”. Any intelligent person who reads those words in context, knows exactly what Jesus was saying in John 14. You are pouring out a man-made theology that Jesus was referring to the law when he spoke of commandments. You can rewind multiple chapters or fast forward multiple chapters, and you will not find a single mention of the law. Yet, you hope to convince me to buy into the lie that Jesus wants me to prove my love for him by keeping the law. The very law that he said, I am dead to. Jesus is the end of the law for all who believe. Jesus literally told you what the commandments are in the same letter, yet somehow you want me to believe that the spirit has revealed the truth to you, and yet you don’t even see it with your own eyes.
So, I challenge you to show me one mention of the law in John letter. You won’t find it. You can hang it upside down and squeeze lemon juice all over it, but she will not find any hint of evidence that Jesus was calling the commandments, the law..
For the context, all you need to do is rewind in John 14 to verse 10. Jesus starts talking about believing. He says, don’t you believe that I am in the father and he is in me? Verse 11 he repeated twice. Verse 12 he said whoever believes in me will do the works that I do.. And he’s referring to love. So the context is believing and love. In fact, Jesus literally comes straight out and tells us what the commandments are, so we don’t have to guess.
[John 15:12] “THIS is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.
[1 John 3;23] THIS is His commandment, that we [a]believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
So I’ve given you the Scriptures TEACHING US THAT the commandment is to BELIEVE and to LOVE each other. I’m pretty sure you hate me. At least that’s the way you speak. But we are commanded to love other children of God, and to believe in Jesus. If you wish to take the commands of Jesus and turn them into the laws that he freed us from, well, I guess you’re free to follow a false gospel. Although I worry where that gets you in the end.
Next, you start talking about a covenant saying that I need to do my part. My friend, again, you are illustrating that you have completely missed the entire gospel message. The new covenant is not between you and God. You are merely a recipient. A receiver of the gift.
God could swear by no one greater, so he swore to himself – Hebrew 6:13.
This is God, promising himself. You don’t have a part in the covenant. You simply believe and receive through faith. You are describing an old testament covenant that was between the Jewish men and God. The law. And no one was found righteous through it.. And the point of the law was to show you your need for a better covenant, founded on better hopes. One that was between God and God. Because by two unchangeable things, God cannot lie.
Also, what makes you think you’re qualified to push though law? I challenge you to read the entire Bible and show me just one scripture where a non-Jewish person was commanded to keep the law. Just one. And he won’t find it, because the law was a covenant that only existed between God and the Jews. You only had one covenant. Jesus.
[Romans 2:14] For when the Gentiles, who have NOT the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, they, not having the law, are a law unto themselves,.
[Eph 2:12] You lived in this world that at that time ye were WITHOUT Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise
So you are peddling a system that gentiles were not invited to.
So, I will close with this. In my opinion, based on your message, you honestly sound like a Pharisee, which means it is highly unlikely that you are a Christian. You indeed appear to be clean on the outside, but I’m convinced that on the inside your dead. I don’t even see a shred of loving you. Reading everything you’ve shared I don’t even see you have any confidence in the cross. All you’re talking about is human performance.
I tried to be very kind with you, but you are insulting, and peddling a lie that distorts the gospel of grace. You showed no trust in Jesus. You show no love towards other Christians. So, it’s fine if you choose not to speak to me anymore. The message you were pushing is unhealthy, and quite frankly, you can take that DNA somewhere else. But when you’re ready to know Jesus, and I hope that someday you will, please know that I forgive you, and I’m willing to reinvent this discussion.
I do wish you the best. But more importantly, I hope you find a church that can really help you come to know Jesus. Because I’m pretty sure whoever you’re following, he’s not Jesus..
Thankyou for speaking the truth. We are to run away and hate sin as true born again believers. We can lose our salvation if we don’t repent our sins and turn away from this wicked world.
Yes, we ARE to avoid sin. We’re not made for sin. We are made for good works. But have you read the letter to the Corinthians? Talk about breaking records for sin. Yet, not a single mention of losing salvation. Instead, they were told they would be ‘presented as blameless in the end’ – 1 Cor 1:8.
Individuals who argue that salvation can be lost seem to lack a biblical basis for their claims. It appears that they don’t place their trust in Jesus, relying instead on their own actions. Essentially, you seem to advocate for a salvation based on deeds. It might be worth reflecting on whether you genuinely understand Jesus’ teachings.
Many atheists actively avoid committing sin, such as lying, stealing, or infidelity. Your perspective mirrors theirs in this regard. Both believers and non-believers agree that sin should be avoided. However, what distinguishes us from atheists is our belief in the divine sanctity and perfection of God’s Law, asserting that mere abstention from sin doesn’t equate to righteousness. Because if we could retain our salvation by avoiding sin, then Jesus died needlessly – Gal 2:21
If you claim to be sinless, then you’re a liar and the truth is not in you. Will you then say, “Yes, I sin, but I repent and ask for forgiveness”? If that’s the case, I believe that’s a grave misinterpretation of scripture. Salvation isn’t about recognizing sin and then seeking forgiveness from God sin by sin. It’s rooted in Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross, bearing our sins so that by believing in Him, we gain eternal life. Your viewpoint doesn’t reflect salvation through Grace. Instead, it seems to suggest salvation either by avoiding sin altogether or by sinning, ceasing, and then seeking Jesus’ forgiveness. Both interpretations don’t align with the essence of Jesus’ sacrifice for us.
You might perceive yourself as being more spiritual than other believers who recognize their weakness. However, it seems you might be missing genuine faith. I genuinely hope you’ll approach this with an open heart and mind, reevaluating the foundation of your beliefs. Reflect deeply, and you might find the answers within.
And I would like to reiterate, I have always said, and will continue to say that sin is BAD. It has no place in the Christian life. But you live in a broken body. You do have a new heart any new spirit, but the evil one takes advantage of you to that broken flesh to lie to you and deceive you into thinking that sin will somehow fulfill. As much as we all truly hate sin, if we are to be truly intellectually, honest, with ourselves, we will acknowledge that we all stumble in many ways – James 3:3.
I don’t believe that Yeshua/Jesus was the end of the law/Torah. In Matthew chapter 5 He tells us that He dis not come to abolish the law or te prophets, but to fulfill them or ( walk them out for us to see and understand). Yeshua walked in the law/ Torah, but He did not follow the laws of men ( Pharisees or Saddusees. sp.) He defeated the law of sin and death, or gave us grace so that we did not have to die in sin.
I’m highly familiar with the Torah and, yes, I do study both Hebrew and Greek.
Yes, Jesus is the word. But the ‘word’ is not the ‘law’. The word is Jesus/God. The bible may be the ‘word of God’ but you are confusing to two subjects.
If we don’t accept that “Jesus is the end of the law”, then it seems we are not fully embracing what the scriptures convey, as they explicitly state this.
Would you also reject these scriptures referring to the law…..
The Torah is a ministry of condemnation and DEATH – 2 Cor 3:9
Whoever keeps the whole Torah but stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it ALL – James 2:10
Now the Torah came in to INCREASE the trespass, but where sin increased – Romans 5:20
The Torah was set ASIDE because it is WEAK and USLESS and perfects NOTHING – Hebrews 7:18
Susan, I think you (with good intentions) search the Torah because in it you think you find life, but all of the scriptures testify to Jesus. You should not think that Jesus will accuse you before God. He will NOT. The only one who is accusing you is Moses (through the Torah), which seems to be where you may be putting your hope – John 5:39-47
You are blinded by your own deception.
When Jesus said “my commandments”, he wasn’t talking about “the Law”, i.e. the Torah.
John 15:10-11: “If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love. These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.”
John 14:21: “Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.”
Matthew 28:19: “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
1 John 2:3: “And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him”
Go ahead and twist those. I’m sure you will.
There’s an old saying: Rudeness is the weak man’s imitation of strength
My dear friend, your actions often convey a certain lack of courage. Retrospectively, it appears that you seldom make a post without imbuing it with a tone of superiority. This tendency seems to be particularly prevalent among those who, like the Pharisees of old, may not fully grasp the essence of the Scriptures. Your words often carry an air of antagonism, insults, and a failure to control your verbal impulses. Discussing spiritual matters concerning our Lord with you, unfortunately, loses its charm. In public, you seem to assert yourself with a demeaning attitude towards those who hold differing views. Your unwillingness to display the slightest bit of kindness or grace is quite conspicuous. You seem rigid, unyielding to anyone who doesn’t celebrate your biblical acumen. This attitude, sadly, tends to drain the joy and vitality out of our interactions. It does raise questions about whether such behavior reflects the presence of the Spirit of Christ within.
I gave you two Bible verses, where Jesus said from his lips – This is my commandment, that you believe in the Son and that you love others. You can keep posting verses, but you are conflating the word ‘commands’ with the ‘law’, and ignoring the fact that there is no reference to the mosaic law.
And let’s take this one level deeper. If, as you suggest, the will of God is that we keep the law or we go to hell, how do you reconcile it with these teachings:
1-The law arouses our sinful passions. When the law is in us, it is bearing fruit for death. Rom 7:5
2-But Christians have been released from the law which held us captive, and it did that for us, so we could serve in a new way of the spirit, and not the old way of the law – Rom 7:6
3-t was the law that produced in the apostle Paul, every kind of coveting Rom 7:8
4-Apart from Faith, we are held captive under the law, imprisoned. Gal 3:23
5-The law in the past was our guardian, but that was only until Christ came so that we could be justified by faith. And now that Faith is, we are no longer under the law. Gal3:23-25
6-No, human being is justified by works of the law. We are only justified through faith in Jesus. Gal 2:16
7-Humans are only justified through faith apart from works of the law. Rom 3:28
8-When Gough was talking about the new covenant, he made the old covenant obsolete. And the old covenant is growing older, and ready to vanish away.. Heb 8:13
9-The old covenant is a ministry of death and condemnation. 2 Cor 3:7
10-The new covenant is Jesus canceling the record of debt that stood against us with his legal demands. He has set it aside, and nailed to the Cross.. Col 2:14
11-God has set the old commandment aside because it is weak and useless and makes no one perfect. But instead the new covenant is founded on better hopes and promises that allows to draw near to God.. Heb 7:18-19
Your discourse seems to be a never-ending cycle. It would require significant reinterpretation of the Scriptures to affirm the notion that God desires us to be perpetually under the law. Despite your persistent remarks, often harsh and lacking wisdom, your extent of anger does not automatically validate your theology. I find it difficult to perceive your devotion to Jesus, let alone your ability to guide others towards Him. Your entire narrative appears Pharisaical in essence. Your fascination with Mosaic law overshadows any genuine affection for Jesus, the cross, and the promises that come with the new covenant. In my view, an excessive emphasis on human deeds leaves little room for the grace and forgiveness that Jesus has extended to all who place their trust solely in Him for their righteousness.
You are free to proceed with your assertions of self-righteousness. However, I must inform you that if your subsequent comment contains immature remarks, I will not approve it. I welcome constructive discussion, but your recent interactions have left me feeling cornered and genuinely uninterested in entertaining your harsh remarks any longer.
The Torah is the law. Do you study Greek or Hebrew. Was Yeshua/ Jesus making things up as he went. If Jesus is the Word then He is the law. The only scriptures available at that time was the Torah and the prophets.
Mike C, thank you for this message. It helped me. I read your bio and I understand where you are coming from because I came from the same and I have struggled to see God’s grace. What I found very interesting is two things you said. One, that you were willing to be wrong. That is what started my path to grace. I had to be willing to give up the doctrines I learned in church in order to see Jesus. I suffered severe child abuse in the conservative Christian church and a family who practiced abuse and cruelty and used the Bible to defend it all. I had to let that go to find life.
The other thing is that you highlighted a passage God keeps showing me over and over in Colossians. Right after that list, he says such WERE some of you. You WERE cleaned, you WERE justified, you WERE sanctified. The spiritual abuse made me believe I was always dirty and I felt my sins confirmed that. Like I wasn’t clean yet. That I hadn’t repented enough. It’s a bondage to think that way. But to know that I am clean because of him, that is the amazing grace of God. I don’t want to sin! I believe that is the heart change that he does. These verses are comforting and they highlight what Jesus did over what I did. God accepted his sacrifice for me once for all. A living sacrifice that continually cleanses. I think in all these passages Paul is saying don’t you know what he did? Reminding and teaching them until they are established in the radical thing that just happened to them.
I especially noticed that he said we were sanctified. Past tense. Most churches teach that we are being progressively sanctified, being made holy. They mean our behavior is improving. But I read a rabbi’s statement on what sanctified and holy meant to the Israelites. He said it is a one time thing. It’s God declaring a thing his own, set apart for a special use. How different is that from the idea that it means our behavior is improving! That made I Cor 6 make sense to me when Paul said don’t you know your body was not made for sexual sin. It was sanctified, bought for a higher purpose than the base behavior of the spiritually blind.
Anyway, thank you for this article. It said the same thing God has been teaching me as I’ve been seeking him and his truth. God bless you and your message.
Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, YE THAT WORK INIQUITY. (Matt. 7:22-23)
Great verse. However, you are using it wildly out of context.
Read Matthews letter slower. The iniquity being worked is the sin of unbelief.
Re: Works – these guys thought their stuff didn’t stink. They are literally bragging about all the things THEY did for Jesus.
Re: Sin. You will not find a single mention of any outward sin. That’s why you did not point one out. Instead you took Jesus’s words out of context.
How do I know the iniquity was not outward sin, but rather inward sin (unbelief)? Simple. Jesus literally said I NEVER knew you.
So, it’s not like they were Christians at one point (when Jesus would have known them) and then suddenly started sinning and lost salvation. No. The context is Jesus NEVER knew them. He did not know them 1 year ago, 10 years ago, or 50 years. He NEVER knew them.
check what the will of God is:
““that you refrain from sexual immorality”
1 Thess 4:3
there are inward sins: pride, malice, envy, lust. there are outward sins: cussing, calumny, gossip, fornication, theft, lying, ect
if either of these kinds are of grave matter, you will perish if you dont confess and repent.
Jesus never knew them. Why? because they didnt keep His commandments….they hated their neighbor, and they hated God. Flashy works, miracles, demon exorcisms, are amazing things, but they justify no man as charity and obedience does.
who was the one actually being referenced here anyway? Judas Iscariot, the future betrayer, and all those who would betray our lord until the end of the age.
Indeed the ‘will of God’ is that we avoid sin. However…..
We do not get forgiveness by ‘confessing’ or even ‘repenting’. We get forgiveness through blood. Your words, and your ability to discontinue making bad choices do not activate the work of the cross. That is a very incorrect theology found it with no biblical truth.
You have a lot of learning to do my friend. Or actually, I think you have a lot of unlearning to do. I’m not saying that angrily. There are many people with good intentions, deeply misunderstand the word God. But with all due respect, this theology is not just dangerous, it is a slap in the face to Jesus.
I came upon your website while looking for ways to understand “predestination” (thank you for that post also) and I got hooked on your message of pure grace. I grew up in a church where the pastor was preaching grace, but the congregation and my mom were living pure legalism. I have been trying to unravel that mess for so many years…Thank you for speaking the truth so boldly. The good news isn’t good news if it fills us with fear. Thank you for pointing me to the true heart of God and for helping release me from my fear. May God abundantly bless your ministry.
Hi Rachel – I am glad you are enjoying the channel 🙂
Hello Mike, I am a Christian I believe to what Christ did on the cross. Admittedly I am living with a married woman that I truly love, will we lost the salvation and not inherit God’s Kingdom?
Before I comment, just for anyone, who’s reading it, I certainly do not condone them in anyway living with someone else’s wife. At the same time, I am not condemning you either. I just don’t want to send the wrong message..
To address your question, no one is saying, or lose your salvation as a result of ANY kind of sin.
Losing salvation is the biggest lie select from the lips of Satan himself.
So, if indeed, you are a believer in Christ, you’re living with a married woman, has absolutely zero impact on her salvation. Your sins have been taken away and you will be presented as blameless on judgment day.
In the passages that say something along the lines of “those who do this won’t inherit heaven” my question is if a believer commits such a sin dies that means they lose salvation, because if there sins are confessed and forgiven then it’s no longer held against them and remembered right? I guess my thinking is this, some of the listed sins I’ve committed even recently and fear that I won’t inherit heaven but then I feel like if I’m forgiven then what do I have to fear??
A Christian can NOT lose salvation.
That means, if we commit the same sin (which is not wise) over and over, and not stop or ask for it to be forgiven, you RREMAIN saved.
Your sins ARE forgiven. The big ones, little ones, and even the ones we foolishly keep committing.
The first you are referring to is:
[1 Corinthians 6:9-10] Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
If we stop there we end up with a jacked up theology. Let me help you to understand it better.
First of all, the Corinthians we committing all kinds of sin. Sexual sins, drunkenness, abusing the Lord’s supper and so much more.
The Apostle Paul is writing them to do two things. 1-he is chastising them for living like the unbelievers to. 2-He will also remind them of who they are in Christ. Safe. Secure. Eternally saved.
So before I give the next verse, let me point out what he saying in simple words. He is saying:
“Hey, Corinthians. What in the world are you doing? Have you forgotten your NEW identity in Christ. You have been made perfect, so why, as if you were still the old self, would you live like they do? Don’t you remember that before you got saved that those things led to death? All unbelieving gays will not inherit the kingdom. Not will drunks, thieves, and any other sinner”
Now, notice what he says in the very next verse. He’s going to remind him that this was their previous identity before they were saved. But now, that they are in Christ, they are completely washed and justified.
[1 Corinthians 6:11] Such WERE some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
So he is literally just told him, that they are not the SUM TOTAL of their SINS. They are washed. Sanctified. Justified.
Circling back to your question. No, you cannot lose salvation because YOU sins HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN.
This comment was to Michael Frasiers message